| Name | Message | Time (Paris) |
|---|---|---|
| Pekr | Sooo the conference starts in 20 minutes ... no live stream yet, I am a bit worried :-) | 10 May 08:40:50 |
| Henrik | I got live stream here? | 10 May 09:05:21 |
| Henrik | It has to be, I hear French people speaking :-) | 10 May 09:05:42 |
| Frank | I can hear and see ... | 10 May 09:08:50 |
| Henrik | it's actually working impressively well | 10 May 09:11:52 |
| Terry | Camera's on it's side.. that nice.. can lie on the couch and watch ;) (after midnight here) | 10 May 09:12:59 |
| Terry | Stream has no sound? | 10 May 09:22:33 |
| Sunanda | Hi fromDecon -- the wifi link works. Francois Jouen is speaking: the opening address. | 10 May 09:23:21 |
| Henrik | I have sound, but no image | 10 May 09:23:25 |
| Terry | ahh, refresh fixed | 10 May 09:23:33 |
| Henrik | sunanda, wonderful! | 10 May 09:23:35 |
| Henrik | it would help a lot if the speaker had a microphone | 10 May 09:26:06 |
| Sunanda | Carl is now speaking -- can you hear him? | 10 May 09:26:35 |
| Pekr | no | 10 May 09:26:50 |
| Terry | froze | 10 May 09:27:09 |
| Henrik | can hear him just barely | 10 May 09:27:37 |
| Terry | works now | 10 May 09:27:41 |
| Terry | need to refresh every now and then | 10 May 09:27:53 |
| Henrik | just keep the voice up, and it'll do fine | 10 May 09:28:00 |
| Sunanda | Carl says try turning up the volume :-) | 10 May 09:28:08 |
| Pekr | hmm, I try to run separate quick-time, but no luck yet ... | 10 May 09:28:37 |
| Pekr | video is pinky, sounds is good, although a bit jerky from time to time ... | 10 May 09:30:07 |
| Pekr | video good too ... | 10 May 09:30:25 |
| Sunanda | The techies are twiddling settings ... perhaps that is helping. | 10 May 09:30:56 |
| Pekr | how many ppl there? | 10 May 09:31:12 |
| Pekr | were Carl's slides already released? | 10 May 09:32:04 |
| Sunanda | I count 27 | 10 May 09:32:24 |
| Sunanda | He said his slides *will* be on the web -- so perhaps not yet | 10 May 09:32:43 |
| Henrik | crap... I have to leave for a few hours. bbl | 10 May 09:36:27 |
| Sunanda | Hot news: Slide from Carls says "Finish REBOL 3.0 - summer 2007" | 10 May 09:45:06 |
| Pekr | cool :-) | 10 May 09:45:52 |
| Sunanda | More hot news: Strategic partnership with Safeworlds: RT develop the Language technology SW will be the "platform and applet distributor" Will merge REBOL/View, IOS and Altme ===> Altme 3.0 |
10 May 09:47:28 |
| Cesar | Hi, is this the address? rtsp://ead.ephe.sorbonne.fr/dess-capture.sdp I can't see anything | 10 May 09:48:51 |
| Pekr | http://ead.ephe.sorbonne.fr/dess-capture.sdp | 10 May 09:50:17 |
| Pekr | if ti halts, better start new browser session ... | 10 May 09:50:48 |
| Cesar | Good!! thank you very much | 10 May 09:52:34 |
| Sunanda | R3 status update: 240 kbytes 57 data types 71 actions 124 natives Missing so far async http security requestor unicode OS API Release dates: select developers 1-jan-2007 primary developers 30-jun general developers: 15-jul |
10 May 10:10:19 |
| Sunanda | 1-jan-2007 ::: read as 1-JUNE-2007 | 10 May 10:10:50 |
| Pekr | cool! | 10 May 10:11:01 |
| Pekr | but no unicode? :-) | 10 May 10:11:07 |
| Sunanda | Carl says Unicode is "problematical" and he'll be working with the community on it. | 10 May 10:11:46 |
| Pekr | why it is not problematic for every other language out there? | 10 May 10:13:11 |
| Pekr | well, I think it was not just a priority for initial R3 architecture release ... | 10 May 10:13:42 |
| Sunanda | He said because he is in the US and Americans have little need for UNICODE, so he has little experience of working with it. Hence he needs the wider REBOL community to help with it. | 10 May 10:14:29 |
| Terry | Q. What will the R3 licensing/pricing structure be? | 10 May 10:21:16 |
| Sunanda | Carl says Unicode issue is mainly the OS interface.....That will be part of the Open source part of REBOL....Hence need to find a Unicode expert to write / design it. It could be you, Petr! | 10 May 10:23:39 |
| Terry | Video feed quality is excellent | 10 May 10:24:57 |
| Will | I see Gabriele!! YUU uuu HEllo?? 8) | 10 May 10:25:45 |
| Will | like being there THANKS A LOT!! | 10 May 10:26:06 |
| Volker | is there a way to see it on linux? | 10 May 10:27:22 |
| Pekr | not sure VLC can handle that kind of feed? | 10 May 10:28:20 |
| Volker | when i tried it not. maybe the wrong proprietary drivers^^ | 10 May 10:28:58 |
| Pekr | I got VLC sound, but image is broken on my Vista | 10 May 10:29:23 |
| Will | mm VLC on os x doesn't seem to work | 10 May 10:29:50 |
| Pekr | don't you have quick-time native player on OS-X? :-) | 10 May 10:30:32 |
| Volker | does vista try to compete with linux in that area? :) | 10 May 10:30:42 |
| Will | me yes, I was checking for Volker. | 10 May 10:31:07 |
| Terry | When is the next speaker scheduled? | 10 May 10:32:38 |
| Sunanda | Terry licensing/pricing -- Carl says will be announced in one of the later presentations. Sounds like good news, though | 10 May 10:36:12 |
| Pekr | 14:00 should be next Carl's speach - Motivation for R3 ... but their schedule is already shifted :-) | 10 May 10:36:51 |
| Terry | Thanks. | 10 May 10:36:57 |
| Pekr | Sunanda - how does Carl know I said something about unicode? You told him? :-) | 10 May 10:37:27 |
| Sunanda | Next speaker: Francois Jouen at 10:30 (min mins) | 10 May 10:37:46 |
| Sunanda | Pekr -- I asked the question for you......Not sure if I mentioned your name :-) | 10 May 10:38:19 |
| Sunanda | Schedule is here: http://devcon2007.rebdocproj.org/schedule.html Paris is UTC+2, if think |
10 May 10:39:16 |
| Pekr | :-) well, who else coudl complain, right? :-) | 10 May 10:39:21 |
| Sunanda | :-) | 10 May 10:39:32 |
| Will | gabriele is back ;-) | 10 May 10:40:40 |
| Pekr | so, R3 gets released in 2 -3 months? That is cool. 240KB kernel? Cool :-) | 10 May 10:42:20 |
| Pekr | next question from me for Carl will be - what about browser plug-in? Is Josh still around to help? We were supposed to see kind of "security doc", but it never appeared? Hopefully browser plug-in is still kind of strategic product? | 10 May 10:43:14 |
| Sunanda | He said Unicode is three separate issues: 1: getting strings into REBOL 2: a REBOL unicode datatype 3: interfaces to operating systems -- eg for file names. The first two he said are easy. The third, he needs help on. But, as it wll be part of the Open Source 3.0 Opsys interface, it does not need to be done by RT. |
10 May 10:43:24 |
| Volker | On windows/nt everything is unicode afaik. | 10 May 10:44:15 |
| Tomc | police sirens in the background ... rebols being persued | 10 May 10:44:31 |
| Terry | Q What impact will the Prolific / RT partnership have regarding future developments? Is Rebol to become a SW technology, where the developers/contributors build Prolific's profit base? | 10 May 10:45:08 |
| Gabriele | oh...so here i am too now :) | 10 May 10:48:41 |
| Terry | Hi Gab.. you should take a break ;) | 10 May 10:49:01 |
| Gabriele | just managed to get my connection working :) | 10 May 10:49:22 |
| Will | CIAO | 10 May 10:49:32 |
| Gabriele | i managed to take a short video from carl's presentaition | 10 May 10:49:43 |
| Terry | Digging the Rebol T-Shirt | 10 May 10:49:55 |
| Gabriele | i want to try to upload it to youtube to see how it works | 10 May 10:49:57 |
| Sunanda | Tomc -- sirens --- much of central Paris is closed due to the "Manifestations" -- expected riots after the presidential election. Many polce around, at least last night | 10 May 10:50:23 |
| Will | Great, THank you for thaking care! | 10 May 10:50:41 |
| Gabriele | (afterwards i'll try to answer questions here so Sunanda can have a break too ;) | 10 May 10:50:43 |
| PhilB | So who is that next to you Gab? | 10 May 10:50:48 |
| Sunanda | Thanks, gabriele -- I think I was the only one to read the wfi key correctly for the first session.....There wasa lowercase b that looked like a D to everyone else. I've updated the whiteboard | 10 May 10:52:19 |
| Will | was that Dock? | 10 May 10:52:24 |
| PhilB | Did I hear someone say there was 250 people viewing the video stream? If so its impressive quality | 10 May 10:53:49 |
| Gabriele | phil: luca is on my right | 10 May 10:54:13 |
| Sunanda | Francois Jouen now speaking. | 10 May 10:55:31 |
| Maxim | I am here now... at the back too... | 10 May 10:56:13 |
| Gabriele | downloading my video from the camera... | 10 May 10:56:23 |
| PhilB | So we are running about 30 minutes late? | 10 May 10:56:27 |
| Sunanda | About that, yes. | 10 May 10:56:41 |
| Volker | firefox on windows in virtualbox on ubuntu plays^^ | 10 May 11:01:52 |
| Anton | I am watching successfully in Firefox with quicktime plugin. | 10 May 11:14:17 |
| Volker | yes, for that i had to run windows somehow :) | 10 May 11:14:47 |
| Anton | ah... bugger. | 10 May 11:16:08 |
| Terry | So Doc, any cheyenne annoucemnts today? | 10 May 11:16:25 |
| Dockimbel | Hi Terry, well, I should release an alpha of the latest version with the new RSP engine next week. | 10 May 11:18:43 |
| Terry | :) | 10 May 11:18:57 |
| Pekr | Doc - just steal R3 alpha from Carl and you could release it in threaded mode :-) | 10 May 11:19:29 |
| Will | YES | 10 May 11:19:45 |
| Terry | He's not at his computer at the moment ;) | 10 May 11:20:03 |
| Pekr | hey, just don't put this altme channel on the display, ppl would see our conspiracy theory then :-) | 10 May 11:21:06 |
| Dockimbel | Too late ;-P | 10 May 11:29:54 |
| Pekr | :-) | 10 May 11:30:05 |
| Terry | Carl's looking tired, wait till he dozes off. | 10 May 11:30:29 |
| Pekr | What are guys trying to do on their notebook? :-) I know one magic solution C:\> format c: (enter) | 10 May 11:31:37 |
| Will | we need a rebol made skype.. | 10 May 11:32:05 |
| Cesar | :-) | 10 May 11:32:14 |
| Terry | Who's in the brown coat? | 10 May 11:32:24 |
| Pekr | it will come :-) | 10 May 11:32:25 |
| Dockimbel | A guy working with François I guess | 10 May 11:33:08 |
| Dockimbel | He's taking care of the video and audio streaming | 10 May 11:33:38 |
| Sunanda | They are trying to set up the skype link for Reichart. | 10 May 11:33:45 |
| Terry | Stream is amazing.. watching on a 60" monitor.. | 10 May 11:34:24 |
| Will | quite funny 8P | 10 May 11:34:33 |
| Will | my one is just 20..8-/ | 10 May 11:34:57 |
| Will | skype is a real beast to make work, I would have hoped Carl stepping in and writing a clone in 10 lines.. | 10 May 11:37:19 |
| Terry | Yeah, good luck wit dat. | 10 May 11:37:37 |
| Sunanda | Looks like skype is a wash out.....Maxim preparing to speak. | 10 May 11:38:21 |
| Graham | where is the video stream? | 10 May 11:38:38 |
| Pekr | hmm, last week we had meeting from high school after 16 years. I set-up skype from Jablunkov to Dallas and video beamer in less than 10 minutes including installation. Maybe I was just lucky (never used Skype before) | 10 May 11:38:47 |
| Terry | No POTS in the room? | 10 May 11:38:49 |
| Graham | Geez, has Devcon already started??? | 10 May 11:38:51 |
| Pekr | http://ead.ephe.sorbonne.fr/dess-capture.sdp | 10 May 11:38:55 |
| Sunanda | http://www.sahores-conseil.com/rebol2007.html | 10 May 11:38:57 |
| Sunanda | All PANS here -- not all og it working | 10 May 11:39:15 |
| Pekr | yes, first presentation of Carl is over. It was "Historical note" ... next one, "The mMotivation for R3" should be in 3 hours cca ... | 10 May 11:40:21 |
| Graham | silent movie | 10 May 11:41:11 |
| Gabriele | first 8 minutes of carl's speech are uploading to youtube | 10 May 11:41:39 |
| Sunanda | 2:20 minutes time if lunch runs to schedule. Time in paris now 11:40 == UTC+2 |
10 May 11:41:41 |
| Sunanda | Maxim now talking. | 10 May 11:42:22 |
| Gabriele | other pieces came out to be bigger than 100MB so not sure youtube will take them, you'll have to wait for teh official video | 10 May 11:42:34 |
| Reichart | Gab, Remonts seemed to disconnect. | 10 May 11:48:11 |
| Reichart | Redmonts... | 10 May 11:48:24 |
| Reichart | My whole system seemed to come to a halt when I connected to France.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... | 10 May 11:48:59 |
| Reichart | : ) | 10 May 11:49:03 |
| Sunanda | Sorry you missed your momenr Reichart -- and so late at night for you too: we were guessing 02:30 for you | 10 May 11:49:07 |
| Gabriele | yeah, max is speaking now, i guess you got moved :) | 10 May 11:49:10 |
| Reichart | Jokes aside, I have never seen it do that. | 10 May 11:49:20 |
| Reichart | No worries. | 10 May 11:49:26 |
| Reichart | I'm around... | 10 May 11:49:30 |
| Gabriele | i had to cancel the upload to youtube as it was creating problems for the video stream | 10 May 11:49:41 |
| Gabriele | i'll upload later on | 10 May 11:49:46 |
| Gabriele | ok | 10 May 11:49:56 |
| Reichart | I have a really cool Logitech camera that tracks faces, all seemed good (and I use it all the time), but this time it all froze up. | 10 May 11:50:11 |
| Reichart | I hate when the "network" brings applications to a halt. | 10 May 11:50:39 |
| Gabriele | there were too many people looking -demo effect. | 10 May 11:50:44 |
| Gabriele | ;) | 10 May 11:50:53 |
| Reichart | It sure felt like that (demo effect!) | 10 May 11:50:58 |
| Reichart | AltME works though : ) | 10 May 11:51:09 |
| Sunanda | Message from the techie in the brown coat: could we all in the room not surf -- the bandwidth out of the building isn't up to it, and it may affect the video stream. Altme is fine though :-) |
10 May 11:52:17 |
| Gabriele | sunanda, it was probably me trying the youtube upload - i killed that window | 10 May 11:52:52 |
| Gabriele | people will just have to wait :) | 10 May 11:53:13 |
| Sunanda | Well, he thought is was me :-) | 10 May 11:53:14 |
| Gabriele | ah, so i could have continued and you'd get all the blame ;) | 10 May 11:53:45 |
| Pekr | :-) | 10 May 11:54:32 |
| Reichart | : ) | 10 May 11:54:59 |
| Pekr | Tell Maxim put some small bits of negativity around, as I am not there and he knows how to do it too :-) | 10 May 11:55:07 |
| Gabriele | i'll tell him when he asks for questions | 10 May 11:55:35 |
| Graham | what I am supposed to use to view and hear this stream on windows?? | 10 May 11:55:44 |
| Terry | quicktime | 10 May 11:56:03 |
| Graham | I don't get any sound on QT | 10 May 11:56:03 |
| PhilB | Just use Firefox & Flash | 10 May 11:56:11 |
| Gabriele | try refresh | 10 May 11:56:16 |
| Terry | did you refresh? | 10 May 11:56:17 |
| Graham | hmm. refresh works :) | 10 May 11:58:35 |
| Pekr | Gabriele - ask him to provide us with Elixir based visual graph of his all systems, because after all those years, we still just gues, what are those about :-) | 10 May 11:58:35 |
| Terry | So Reichart, cone of silence aside, how is this partnership between RT and Prolific going to affect future developments? | 10 May 11:58:45 |
| Reichart | Should not effect us... | 10 May 11:59:36 |
| Pekr | Terry - in a good way? :-) Reichart is rich man, he has experience with business, he contracts many rebol developers already :-) | 10 May 11:59:42 |
| Gabriele | terry, i think the partnership is between safeworlds and rt, and safeworlds is - i think - separated from prolific. but i guess your question still stands. | 10 May 11:59:47 |
| Gabriele | (reichart correct me if i'm wrong) | 10 May 12:00:02 |
| Terry | premise is the same | 10 May 12:00:13 |
| Pekr | yes, just joking around, I can see why Terry asks such question ... | 10 May 12:00:16 |
| Graham | who's talking? and what is he talking about? | 10 May 12:00:28 |
| Terry | maxim.. about steel | 10 May 12:00:40 |
| Pekr | Isn't Safeworlds" also RT's involvement? | 10 May 12:00:41 |
| Gabriele | Maxim, talking about Steel | 10 May 12:00:48 |
| Pekr | Maxim is talking :-) | 10 May 12:00:49 |
| Sunanda | Max talking about Steel / SLiM etc | 10 May 12:00:57 |
| Reichart | Maxim looks GREAT! | 10 May 12:01:27 |
| Sunanda | Schedule is here: http://devcon2007.rebdocproj.org/schedule.html |
10 May 12:02:04 |
| Graham | it sounds very odd .. getting triple echo | 10 May 12:02:15 |
| Graham | ahh .. had two streams open at once! | 10 May 12:02:56 |
| Terry | My point is.. is Rebol going corporate.. with a particular agenda.. (ie: Microsoft).. or leaning towards open source.. this is a serious question. | 10 May 12:03:08 |
| Jerry | 4 | 10 May 12:03:10 |
| Sunanda | Presentation is based on these docs: http://www.rebol.it/steel/ |
10 May 12:03:10 |
| Gabriele | Terry: basically, Safeworlds will offer a product, AltME 3, that replaces View, IOS and AltMe 1. That is a product and so is more business targeted. | 10 May 12:04:30 |
| Gabriele | RT, instead, focuses on the language itself, and the language has a lot of parts that are open source. | 10 May 12:04:58 |
| Terry | parts.. interesting | 10 May 12:05:15 |
| Gabriele | there is no real duality between open source and corporate, anyway. (we're talking bsd license, not gpl) | 10 May 12:05:24 |
| Reichart | Yup... | 10 May 12:05:36 |
| Gabriele | the core itself is still proprietary (a 200k dll so far) | 10 May 12:05:58 |
| Terry | There can be a conflict of interest | 10 May 12:06:07 |
| Reichart | The istream looks REALLY good! | 10 May 12:07:18 |
| Gabriele | RT is interested in developing the language REBOL. Safwerolds is interested in developing the product AltMe 3. their iinterests converge a lot. there's mainly just a difference of focus. | 10 May 12:07:26 |
| Reichart | Would be fun to know how many people are pulling it. | 10 May 12:07:33 |
| Terry | So Altme3 is the new view? You don't see a conflict there? | 10 May 12:07:35 |
| Reichart | How can there be a conflict in a free marketplace? | 10 May 12:08:22 |
| Gabriele | reichart: i think it was 3 or 4 people | 10 May 12:08:36 |
| Reichart | Great video of Maxim's ASS! | 10 May 12:08:39 |
| Cesar | :_) | 10 May 12:08:53 |
| Terry | I understand the financial aspect.. and the free market aspect. Is Rebol turning into an application, more than a language the Im to build a company on? | 10 May 12:10:30 |
| Graham | kick ass video | 10 May 12:11:08 |
| Gabriele | REBOL is the language, AltMe is an application (Virtual OS actually) based on it. | 10 May 12:11:08 |
| Gabriele | Max is putting in some negativity - petr be happy | 10 May 12:11:32 |
| Reichart | Video forze (on my side at least) | 10 May 12:12:25 |
| Sunanda | Yep, he's just compained direct to Carl cos his demo is having difficulties wth multiple open windows. Carl said Atlme can handle that case :-) |
10 May 12:12:27 |
| Terry | refresh if the feed freezes | 10 May 12:12:54 |
| Graham | was this talk prepared? | 10 May 12:13:35 |
| Gabriele | i'll ask max ;) | 10 May 12:14:05 |
| Reichart | Refresh worked, audio cuts in and out. | 10 May 12:14:15 |
| Graham | We know Max never finishes anything | 10 May 12:15:22 |
| Gabriele | not even presentations? | 10 May 12:15:52 |
| Gabriele | ;) | 10 May 12:15:57 |
| Graham | yeah ... I think this is going to never finish | 10 May 12:16:50 |
| Reichart | Is the link to teh video feed ON the website? As in here somewhere? http://devcon2007.rebdocproj.org/index.html | 10 May 12:18:15 |
| Reichart | Ah, I see it, in the Sessions page. | 10 May 12:18:40 |
| Gabriele | yep | 10 May 12:18:49 |
| Reichart | Says LIFE as opposed to LIVE. | 10 May 12:18:50 |
| Terry | Carl said he'll discuss R3 licensing/pricing later.. let's hope for some fresh air in this area, or I'm afraid R3 will become a specialty application for a very narrow user base, with a specific agenda. 3:20 a.m. here.. signing off.. enjoy the rest of the conference. |
10 May 12:19:59 |
| Sunanda | Goodnight, Terry. | 10 May 12:20:57 |
| Terry | I was actually looking forward to your presentation Reichart... too bad for the tech issues. | 10 May 12:21:03 |
| Anton | I am bit concerned if View becomes proprietary. | 10 May 12:21:06 |
| Gabriele | terry, i exclude that's the case. but we'll see :) | 10 May 12:21:08 |
| Reichart | Other than only seeing Maxims ASS, this video is great. I think we can make money for the fetish market that likes French Canadian Geek Porn. | 10 May 12:22:40 |
| Terry | that smiley is promising Gab.. l8tr | 10 May 12:22:58 |
| Reichart | I'm riding my bicycle with some friends in about 4 hours...at a place that two days ago all burned. We lost something like 300 hectacres. | 10 May 12:24:10 |
| Reichart | Los Angeles lost a HUGE resource, Grifith Park burned to the ground. | 10 May 12:24:41 |
| Anton | That sounds terrible. | 10 May 12:25:43 |
| Reichart | http://www.laist.com/archives/2007/05/09/fires_bring_us_closer_together.php | 10 May 12:26:38 |
| Reichart | Was amazing to see teh entire skyline on fire | 10 May 12:26:56 |
| Henrik | back... anything about when new info is released on the web on R3? | 10 May 12:27:04 |
| Pekr | Gabriele - in what way is AltME a virtual OS? | 10 May 12:27:21 |
| Gabriele | henrik - i'll ask soon. i think that carl already has all the files online. | 10 May 12:27:43 |
| Pekr | Henrik - I expect Carl's notes be revealed with his next speach .... | 10 May 12:27:46 |
| Gabriele | pekr: details are not given yet. | 10 May 12:27:55 |
| Pekr | Gabriele - so only the core.dll becomes closed source? What about View? All open sourced? | 10 May 12:28:35 |
| Gabriele | afaik, yes. | 10 May 12:28:53 |
| Henrik | 240 kb kernel... is this completely barebones and is this bigger or smaller than R2? | 10 May 12:29:20 |
| Reichart | The idea is to open source a lot, and just keep the low level stuff closed, but RT will post something official. | 10 May 12:29:27 |
| Pekr | so now Ruby can finally have their View clone? :-) They will take rebol.dll, create one function "do-rebol", and voila :-) | 10 May 12:29:53 |
| Gabriele | it is the dll only, so it's like R2 Core without the OS dependent parts | 10 May 12:30:01 |
| Gabriele | the actual license on code has not been announced. | 10 May 12:31:07 |
| Pekr | Henrik - good question. I would like to know, if there is finally only one executable, so e.g. View is loadable module/component? Or what is the situation. I don't understand the architecture. I can imagine new SDK, where you can decide, what you put inside, but there are parts like View, external language plug-ins, etc. | 10 May 12:31:19 |
| Gabriele | so it's hard to say if other languages can take advantage of our code (they're probably not smart enough anyway ;) | 10 May 12:31:41 |
| Pekr | :-) | 10 May 12:31:56 |
| Gabriele | one executable - that would be AltMe 3. but developers will have more (ie you can have your own exe you compile yourself) | 10 May 12:32:29 |
| Pekr | Why not? rebol.dll was already out there on the net with plug-in. Jaime posted interface - you could pass it a string with rebol code, no? | 10 May 12:32:34 |
| Gabriele | some components are internal, some external plugins | 10 May 12:32:46 |
| Pekr | Gabriele - this is actually good, you know? First Ruby guys will think they got View for Ruby, next they will realise, they don't actually need Ruby, to just start and use Rebol, so they will drop Ruby :-) | 10 May 12:33:16 |
| Henrik | I'm a bit confused that REBOL/View == AltME now, so does it mean that GUI development is moved away from RT? | 10 May 12:33:17 |
| Sunanda | Henrik -- Maxim has mentioned your styles for Glayout several times, and demoed them. Said he was up at 04:00 last night, and it took him 20minutes to integrate your styles into Glayout. |
10 May 12:33:28 |
| Gabriele | petr, sure, apps would benefit to have rebol in, but would another language do? i don't know. maybe. | 10 May 12:33:38 |
| Reichart | (I may have missed this) how many people are in that room? | 10 May 12:33:52 |
| Henrik | sunanda, cool :-) | 10 May 12:34:01 |
| Pekr | 27 | 10 May 12:34:05 |
| Reichart | How many "dont" speak English?" | 10 May 12:34:27 |
| Pekr | all French? ;-) | 10 May 12:34:43 |
| Gabriele | i think view == altme in terms of products. | 10 May 12:34:47 |
| Gabriele | don't or can't speak english? | 10 May 12:35:06 |
| Sunanda | Not spoke to anyone here who has no english. The conference is all in english. |
10 May 12:35:22 |
| Reichart | : ) I guess I will go with "Don't" | 10 May 12:35:26 |
| Pekr | it seems to me new marketing plan is already being decided? SafeWorlds, AltME (messaging), AltScript - alternative name to REBOL? | 10 May 12:35:40 |
| Gabriele | ie for us developers nothing changes (except for the fact that altme 3 opens up a lot of opportunities etc) | 10 May 12:35:58 |
| Pekr | Sunanda ... we are just joking around .... | 10 May 12:36:09 |
| Pekr | or not? :-) | 10 May 12:36:15 |
| Gabriele | don't - even i don't speak always english... so i guess a lot of people here | 10 May 12:36:23 |
| Reichart | Agreed (with Gab) | 10 May 12:36:28 |
| Henrik | so, Maxim is being grilled by Carl now? | 10 May 12:36:46 |
| Sunanda | Sorry Petr, my english very bac | 10 May 12:36:51 |
| Reichart | Regarding oppertunities. | 10 May 12:36:52 |
| Reichart | Maxim wearing glasses to look smart.... | 10 May 12:37:29 |
| Sunanda | No being grilled. They are trading techie notes on grid engines, VID resizing etc. | 10 May 12:37:31 |
| Pekr | no, he is just wearing smart glasses :-) | 10 May 12:38:20 |
| Reichart | : ) | 10 May 12:38:35 |
| Sunanda | Carl wants to know Max's secrets for smoothely resizing windows. Max is telliing him :-) |
10 May 12:38:38 |
| Pekr | Maxim should be put on View team :-) | 10 May 12:39:07 |
| Reichart | ..........I agree. | 10 May 12:39:18 |
| Reichart | We have considered hiring him.....but he has a first love. | 10 May 12:39:28 |
| Sunanda | It could be a job interview :-) | 10 May 12:39:32 |
| Pekr | along with coders like Anton, Volker and Henrik ... | 10 May 12:39:36 |
| Gabriele | nah, we'll do our own thing and don't want external influences ;) | 10 May 12:39:40 |
| Gabriele | :P | 10 May 12:39:44 |
| Reichart | LOL | 10 May 12:39:50 |
| Pekr | :-) | 10 May 12:39:53 |
| Reichart | NIH (Not Invented Here) | 10 May 12:40:05 |
| Pekr | Gabriele - what own thing? Sounds selfish :-) | 10 May 12:40:07 |
| Anton | :) | 10 May 12:40:45 |
| Gabriele | aren't we supposed to be selfish? :P | 10 May 12:40:48 |
| Anton | maybe that should be the new name | 10 May 12:41:21 |
| Gabriele | lol | 10 May 12:41:32 |
| Pekr | selfish? | 10 May 12:41:32 |
| Pekr | :-) | 10 May 12:41:38 |
| Gabriele | will make Steve happy... selFish | 10 May 12:41:48 |
| Pekr | Steve could object, it shouds like Efish :-) | 10 May 12:42:00 |
| Pekr | ah, you were faster! | 10 May 12:42:15 |
| Reichart | My vote for a name is YANSEFTL (You Are Not Smart Enough For This Language) | 10 May 12:42:43 |
| Gabriele | petr, you should really be here | 10 May 12:43:03 |
| Anton | How about just "ME" | 10 May 12:43:08 |
| Anton | It's all about ME. | 10 May 12:43:18 |
| Anton | How can ME help you ? | 10 May 12:43:37 |
| Reichart | My harddrive is filled with resumes from programmers that WON'T program in any language they have not seen plastered on the web. | 10 May 12:43:41 |
| Gabriele | how do you search for ME on google? :) | 10 May 12:43:42 |
| Pekr | well, maybe AltME is not "alternative messaging" but just "alter ME (ego)" :-) | 10 May 12:43:55 |
| Reichart | How about a language that changes pronoun. I program in ME, it can amazing things for YOU. | 10 May 12:44:50 |
| Anton | Yeah, I'm sick of all the ungooglable name suggestions - forgive me my emotional lapse there. | 10 May 12:44:55 |
| Reichart | One of my fav bands is called Praise, it is IMPOSSIBE to find thier albulm on the web... | 10 May 12:45:29 |
| Reichart | I think it killed them, because there music is AMAZING. | 10 May 12:46:01 |
| Anton | That could be just a clever ploy in today's world. | 10 May 12:46:03 |
| Anton | Sound has been out for me for ~5 minutes, just started again. | 10 May 12:47:37 |
| Gabriele | just refresh when that happens | 10 May 12:48:21 |
| Anton | ok | 10 May 12:48:32 |
| Reichart | Odd to need to refresh. | 10 May 12:48:51 |
| Gabriele | misteries of IT | 10 May 12:49:11 |
| Gabriele | like your skype call :) | 10 May 12:49:18 |
| Gabriele | (i guess the decoder loses sync with the stream) | 10 May 12:49:39 |
| Anton | I haven't updated my firefox for sometime, maybe the software is old. | 10 May 12:50:06 |
| Anton | FF 1.5.0.4 | 10 May 12:50:32 |
| Reichart | DEf pick up 2.0, much better | 10 May 12:50:45 |
| Pekr | Final question for the DevCon? Where is DevCon 2008 headed? Back to US? Amsterodam? Czech Republic? :-) | 10 May 12:50:47 |
| Reichart | Maui...! | 10 May 12:51:14 |
| Gabriele | if you start organizing it it could be czech ;) | 10 May 12:51:21 |
| Sunanda | Carl joked (i think!) last night that if R3.0 takes off, we'd need space for 300 people at the next DevCon. | 10 May 12:52:24 |
| Pekr | Maui? Is it on Hawai? Wonder how expensive would that be? :-) | 10 May 12:52:33 |
| Gabriele | reichart will pay for us ;) | 10 May 12:52:52 |
| Reichart | Worth every penny, that is all that matter. | 10 May 12:53:38 |
| Reichart | Many of you will just stay in Maui... | 10 May 12:53:47 |
| Pekr | what do you mean - stay in Maui? | 10 May 12:54:17 |
| Will | me for sure and I hope someone teach me surfing.. 8-) | 10 May 12:54:28 |
| Gabriele | we're heading to lunch - back in one hour i guess (max is finishing quickly) | 10 May 12:55:18 |
| Anton | Carl's comments on merging of VID dialect and global namespace. It took me a long while to learn it, but I appreciate it more and more. | 10 May 12:55:25 |
| Will | Maxim does amazing stuff! | 10 May 12:55:33 |
| Gabriele | anton, i agree, the pdf maker 2 merges the two even more (maybe too much, but i like it) | 10 May 12:56:21 |
| Reichart | One hour/.................Lunch with teh French? Yeah.......right. LOL | 10 May 12:56:29 |
| Reichart | See you in 2 hours. | 10 May 12:56:51 |
| Sunanda | Especially as lunch includes free wine and coffee :-) | 10 May 12:56:59 |
| Gabriele | well it's supposed to be a quick lunch | 10 May 12:56:59 |
| Anton | Try not to look like rebels out on the streets. | 10 May 12:57:10 |
| Gabriele | but... yeah... you might be right | 10 May 12:57:13 |
| Reichart | Right, 2 hours is a quick lunch in France... | 10 May 12:57:14 |
| Gabriele | i was just citing the schedule | 10 May 12:57:29 |
| Gabriele | quoting | 10 May 12:57:38 |
| Reichart | : ) | 10 May 12:57:46 |
| Gabriele | we're off schedule anyway... | 10 May 12:58:08 |
| Gabriele | btw reichart - you're not sleeping at all today? | 10 May 12:58:27 |
| Reichart | I only sleep 4 hours per day | 10 May 12:59:20 |
| Reichart | I got a few hours of sleep earlier....so I'm up for the next 20 hours or so. | 10 May 12:59:41 |
| Reichart | Free wine?!? Don't let Carl near it, he will start comparing it to his own Vineyards...and it will be a 3-4 hour lunch! | 10 May 13:00:49 |
| Gabriele | i have to show this one to Carl ;) | 10 May 13:01:28 |
| Henrik | and they'll all be drunk, which won't look good on the live stream | 10 May 13:01:29 |
| Reichart | Some how I think this group can handle a lot of wine... | 10 May 13:02:08 |
| Sunanda | We're closed for lunch now. Back in a Parisian hour for Carl speaking on: "The Motivation for R3" |
10 May 13:05:35 |
| Henrik | looking forward to it! | 10 May 13:05:54 |
| Reichart | Wow, that clapping was LOUD! | 10 May 13:05:58 |
| Pekr | OK, so I can finally play some of Iron Maiden songs here .... uaaaa ...! | 10 May 13:06:10 |
| Reichart | Have them turn the video camera towards the room (people) | 10 May 13:06:38 |
| Reichart | Should I be waiting, or am I being skipped? I'm good either way.... | 10 May 13:07:06 |
| Pekr | I think that you are skipped. Hmm, so maybe after lunch? | 10 May 13:07:47 |
| Reichart | Actually I might be back on in 1 hour. | 10 May 13:15:15 |
| Henrik | would it be possible to pipe skype audio to the stream? | 10 May 13:15:57 |
| Reichart | That should be interesting. | 10 May 13:17:16 |
| Reichart | I do plan to use the list I posted for my session as my lead points for my talk. | 10 May 13:17:32 |
| Anton | <slam!> | 10 May 13:18:35 |
| Reichart | slam? | 10 May 13:20:16 |
| Anton | just relaying the sound of the door... | 10 May 13:20:55 |
| Reichart | Ah.........yes. | 10 May 13:22:03 |
| Reichart | The mic in there can get hot. | 10 May 13:22:12 |
| Anton | temperature-wise ? you mean it becomes more sensitive with heat ? | 10 May 13:23:18 |
| Reichart | Sorry, no, a "hot mic" is a mic that swings with volume level...so when there are sharp increases in sound, it clips. | 10 May 13:24:01 |
| Anton | ahh | 10 May 13:24:33 |
| Reichart | A good trick is to put foam over the mic. | 10 May 13:25:16 |
| Reichart | http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=93171 | 10 May 13:26:53 |
| Reichart | first post is one on a hot mic. | 10 May 13:26:59 |
| Anton | obviously there must be a solution to this problem already, but I'm just thinking two mics, one soft, one loud, and a "compressor" box that selects the loudest signal which does not clip. | 10 May 13:31:36 |
| Anton | How would foam help ? Are "loud" sounds typically biased towards the parts of the spectrum foam blocks effectively ? | 10 May 13:35:29 |
| Reichart | YEs. Foam knocks of the high freqs | 10 May 13:35:58 |
| Henrik | I thought foam would only help against wind, popping sounds, etc. | 10 May 13:36:10 |
| Reichart | Also cuts down on pink noise and static. | 10 May 13:36:17 |
| Reichart | http://www.dvuser.co.uk/images/img/articles/diy-boom-pole/mic.jpg | 10 May 13:37:06 |
| Henrik | oh, that wouldn't work on my headset. would get hair in my mouth. | 10 May 13:38:46 |
| Reichart | Actually, up until a few years ago (when mics got a lot better) they used to have foam covers. | 10 May 13:39:19 |
| Anton | So you still get a good effect with a new mic ? Do you think the devcon mic is a new one or old one ? | 10 May 13:40:07 |
| Reichart | http://hpbimg.cambrianflyingschool.co.uk/Headset TELEXEchelon20sm.jpg | 10 May 13:40:15 |
| Reichart | New mic in France | 10 May 13:40:25 |
| Reichart | It is pretty good given teh room (which is all walls and windows, not much to absorb sound) | 10 May 13:40:43 |
| Reichart | So the mic is hot, and the room is hot TOO! | 10 May 13:40:56 |
| Anton | ok, so even a newer mic can be helped with foam in this situation. | 10 May 13:41:00 |
| Reichart | A big glass room is a nightmare for sound. | 10 May 13:41:06 |
| Reichart | Yes, putting foam over the mic would help a little, but it would also mean that it would not work as well iat a distance. What you really want is a mic wired on the person (which has foam built in), and no mic on the room. | 10 May 13:41:57 |
| Reichart | So you localize the sound and the source. | 10 May 13:42:07 |
| Henrik | I think there is often a problem with the sound being too strained, as if you're holding your nose while talking or it sounds like you have a cold. Mine suffers from that, as well as not handling the pronounciation of P sounds properly. | 10 May 13:42:41 |
| Anton | A directional mic on the person. | 10 May 13:42:51 |
| Reichart | It is actually a omni directional I think, but has a peak range of 1 meter. | 10 May 13:43:21 |
| Reichart | It is called a Lanier Mic | 10 May 13:43:57 |
| Anton | Henrik, that sounds like it doesn't have a good response. Have you checked a frequency response. | 10 May 13:44:15 |
| Anton | R. ok, so there's not the problem of pointing the mic to the mouth all the time. | 10 May 13:44:46 |
| Henrik | anton, no I haven't. I'm unsure if some of these problems are solvable in software | 10 May 13:45:01 |
| Anton | I bought a really cheap mic recently - I think it was $3 - and the frequency range is abysmal. | 10 May 13:45:34 |
| Reichart | Right, sound is pressure, it falls of with distance, although th edesign itself makes it somewhat directional, it is really not. | 10 May 13:45:52 |
| Reichart | Mics have dropped in price, just like optics for cameras...but $3 is still TOO CHEAP. Pay $50+ and you will get a good mic. I always trust Plantronics for headsets. | 10 May 13:46:37 |
| Anton | the Lanier mic obviously has a tight dynamic range. | 10 May 13:46:45 |
| Reichart | I have bougfht maybe several hundred mics and headsets over teh yers. | 10 May 13:46:56 |
| Anton | Plantronics - noted. | 10 May 13:47:28 |
| Reichart | My headset (earbuds) are Etymontics (about $400+) | 10 May 13:48:15 |
| Reichart | I also have Shures (about $500+) I use them for slightly diff purposes. | 10 May 13:48:36 |
| Reichart | http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4.aspx | 10 May 13:49:05 |
| Reichart | The ER 4 are pretty good. And I like traveling with them. | 10 May 13:49:19 |
| Anton | those are out of my price range for the moment, but noted for future reference. :) | 10 May 13:49:51 |
| Reichart | They dropped in price ($299) so you can get them now for probably $200+, which is a great deal. | 10 May 13:49:54 |
| Anton | I can go up to around $150 for that sort of thing. | 10 May 13:50:16 |
| Reichart | I know it is tough to make that jump, but if you care about sound, you can never go back to normal Sony or Panasonic type earburs. | 10 May 13:50:25 |
| Reichart | They also have a -35 dB drop, so they REALLY work well on Planes. | 10 May 13:50:43 |
| Anton | oh don't say that - I won't be able to sleep. | 10 May 13:50:51 |
| Anton | huh :) still no one to be seen at the devcon. | 10 May 14:26:47 |
| Volker | Must be good food there :) | 10 May 14:30:19 |
| Anton | Or captured by police :) | 10 May 14:32:10 |
| Anton | Either way, the Parisian landscape is deadly.. | 10 May 14:32:41 |
| Henrik | or they looked too much like rebels... | 10 May 14:34:54 |
| Reichart | Its the wine. | 10 May 14:35:58 |
| Volker | Carls?^^ | 10 May 14:38:02 |
| Sunanda | 14:45 (45 minutes behind the published schedule). I'm back, but no one else is. | 10 May 14:45:35 |
| Pekr | Carl told us that conference will be less formal this year :-) | 10 May 14:46:06 |
| Sunanda | People gathering now ...... | 10 May 14:52:28 |
| Pekr | yes, is Carl singing? No? Good, he kept wine under control :-) | 10 May 14:53:53 |
| eFishAnt | cellfish | 10 May 14:54:07 |
| Pekr | cellfish - getting rebol to sell, on Sony PS3's Cell :-) | 10 May 14:54:36 |
| eFishAnt | good puns, Pekr. | 10 May 14:56:09 |
| Volker | swimming on PS3?^^ | 10 May 14:58:03 |
| Gabriele | we're... ahem... back. :) someone predicted the time very accurately. | 10 May 15:07:11 |
| Geomol | Are the streaming on http://ead.ephe.sorbonne.fr/dess-capture.sdp now? | 10 May 15:07:25 |
| Henrik | geomol, yes, works very well | 10 May 15:07:46 |
| Reichart | LOL...yeah........................... | 10 May 15:07:55 |
| Reichart | I see Richard | 10 May 15:08:00 |
| PhilB | Is that Cyphre on the Right? | 10 May 15:08:11 |
| Geomol | I get "Live Broadcast - Paused" on QuickTime under OSX. | 10 May 15:08:18 |
| Henrik | geomol: press play | 10 May 15:08:32 |
| Geomol | Pressing play doesn't do anything. | 10 May 15:08:36 |
| Henrik | press harder! | 10 May 15:08:48 |
| Reichart | I demand....er, request one thing.....my name is Rike-hart, not rye-shard. | 10 May 15:08:48 |
| Geomol | Maybe because im behind walls in this company. | 10 May 15:09:11 |
| PhilB | :-) | 10 May 15:09:12 |
| Pekr | Raikard? :-) | 10 May 15:09:31 |
| Henrik | geomol, I just put the address into the URL in quicktime and it worked. | 10 May 15:09:33 |
| Reichart | My name should get caught in your throat like a a painful peice of dry food... | 10 May 15:09:36 |
| Geomol | Henrik, ok. | 10 May 15:09:50 |
| Pekr | with french accent? | 10 May 15:10:13 |
| Reichart | Ah, I think I see Gab. | 10 May 15:10:17 |
| PhilB | Cyphre is looking bored .... | 10 May 15:10:52 |
| Henrik | philB, look closely. he's holding a PSP :-) | 10 May 15:11:15 |
| Reichart | I'm convinced that Richard turns off his body when he is thinking... | 10 May 15:11:18 |
| PhilB | or maybe typing onto a PDA | 10 May 15:11:27 |
| Reichart | PS3 | 10 May 15:11:38 |
| Reichart | Sonic is kickiing his ass. | 10 May 15:11:57 |
| Sunanda | Apparently we are waiting for the skype to work -- then Reichart will speak from across the ocean. | 10 May 15:12:24 |
| PhilB | PSP | 10 May 15:12:31 |
| Reichart | Sorry PSP. | 10 May 15:12:51 |
| Reichart | I love that I have forgotten which game system is which...it means I'm free of games. | 10 May 15:13:13 |
| PhilB | wish we had a PS3 that small !! | 10 May 15:13:43 |
| Reichart | Wait 5 years. | 10 May 15:14:05 |
| Ashley | Watching this on Safari/Quicktime I get sound and a green image? | 10 May 15:14:06 |
| Henrik | ashley, just wait for the keyframe | 10 May 15:14:20 |
| Reichart | I get that too for the first 5 seconds Ashley. | 10 May 15:14:24 |
| PhilB | me too ... eventually color comes back | 10 May 15:14:39 |
| Reichart | FF works great though. PC + FF 2.0 | 10 May 15:14:41 |
| Reichart | Best I can tell, if yoru CPU gets bogged with other stuff (opening other windwos, virus checkers, etc.) then it loses sync, and you have to refresh. | 10 May 15:15:29 |
| Ashley | OK, got colour now (took about 30 seconds). | 10 May 15:15:50 |
| Reichart | So you guys have all just eaten lunch...........which means you are all slow......... But I have even more energy right now....I will have to work hard to speak slow now. : ) | 10 May 15:16:16 |
| Henrik | putting the URL directly into quicktime will let you scale the video to fullscreen. | 10 May 15:16:31 |
| Reichart | OK, I'm done looking at Richard and Gab, move 45' left. : ) | 10 May 15:17:04 |
| Sunanda | Looks like Carl is on while the techies sort out the connection for Reichart. | 10 May 15:17:23 |
| Reichart | Sure am glad Carl wore green on green. | 10 May 15:18:08 |
| Reichart | And that he has a name badge!!!! | 10 May 15:18:40 |
| Gabriele | no slides online for Carl | 10 May 15:19:54 |
| Anton | :) | 10 May 15:20:26 |
| Reichart | Give teh Secret location | 10 May 15:20:27 |
| Pekr | Carl refused, no? :-) | 10 May 15:20:42 |
| Anton | I tried to guess the url the other day. | 10 May 15:21:04 |
| PhilB | he has made some minor changes | 10 May 15:21:04 |
| Reichart | No, he just wants to update them again before they go live. | 10 May 15:21:05 |
| Pekr | Anton - me too - I sent google to Rebol.com and net and guessed, but no luck :-) | 10 May 15:21:31 |
| Reichart | You know what it is like. Live presentaiton version 1.3 | 10 May 15:21:40 |
| Anton | I thought he said he modified them - maybe leaving out some details... | 10 May 15:21:49 |
| Pekr | Tell Carl, that if he does not reveal url, we will hack his server :-) | 10 May 15:21:52 |
| PhilB | Nooooo ... stram has stalled ..... | 10 May 15:22:33 |
| Anton | Ah.. le son a cessé | 10 May 15:22:41 |
| Henrik | same here | 10 May 15:22:43 |
| Gabriele | "ge ahead and try" about the server | 10 May 15:22:58 |
| PhilB | it was the threat to hack the server ;-) ;-) | 10 May 15:23:10 |
| Maxim | ge=go | 10 May 15:23:13 |
| Pekr | :-)) | 10 May 15:23:17 |
| Reichart | Yup, stream has died. | 10 May 15:23:19 |
| Henrik | it's up again | 10 May 15:23:29 |
| Pekr | I hacked the videostream probably :-) | 10 May 15:23:29 |
| Reichart | REfresh does nothing. | 10 May 15:23:31 |
| Reichart | Trying again.............. | 10 May 15:23:44 |
| Pekr | it works here with refresh ... | 10 May 15:23:47 |
| Anton | I reloaded and it worked. | 10 May 15:23:50 |
| Reichart | BAck up | 10 May 15:24:00 |
| Gabriele | everyone listening carefully now, eh? :) | 10 May 15:33:15 |
| Pekr | psst! | 10 May 15:33:25 |
| Anton | yep :) | 10 May 15:33:25 |
| Reichart | Yup.... | 10 May 15:33:27 |
| PhilB | yes | 10 May 15:33:30 |
| Anton | oh goody a secret context ! | 10 May 15:35:58 |
| Reichart | Video dropped agian, refreshing... | 10 May 15:36:06 |
| Maxim | :-) | 10 May 15:36:11 |
| Pekr | what for? :-) | 10 May 15:36:12 |
| Maxim | that sounded like a challenge :-) | 10 May 15:36:24 |
| Henrik | more undocumented features | 10 May 15:36:33 |
| Maxim | open source hosting of rebol is confirmed !!! :-) | 10 May 15:39:23 |
| Gabriele | you always need some undocumented stuff so that you can change things in the future without worrying about compatibility ;) | 10 May 15:39:25 |
| Maxim | so pekr has no more arguments againts ! | 10 May 15:39:33 |
| Pekr | Maxim - what do you mean? | 10 May 15:40:00 |
| Reichart | nothing will stop Pekr from argueing............... | 10 May 15:40:10 |
| Pekr | what do you mean by "hosting"? | 10 May 15:40:13 |
| Pekr | Exactly! | 10 May 15:40:23 |
| Maxim | you can compile statically an .exe using rebol inside of it. | 10 May 15:40:47 |
| Pekr | e.g. I don't agree there are no more REBOL t-shirts, someone should be punished for that :-) | 10 May 15:40:58 |
| Pekr | ah, so hosting equals encapping? | 10 May 15:41:33 |
| Maxim | nope. | 10 May 15:41:44 |
| Henrik | hosting = where rebol runs | 10 May 15:42:04 |
| Maxim | it means actually using rebol inside another application. | 10 May 15:42:10 |
| Pekr | ah, so you can develop your Delphi app, linking rebol.dll with your app? | 10 May 15:42:54 |
| Henrik | yes | 10 May 15:43:10 |
| Maxim | no rebol.dll... rebol.o :-) | 10 May 15:43:12 |
| Anton | system port collects all events - hooray ! | 10 May 15:43:17 |
| Maxim | static compilliation. | 10 May 15:43:22 |
| Pekr | ah, even so :-) | 10 May 15:43:26 |
| Pekr | but rebol.dll possibility too, no? | 10 May 15:43:36 |
| Henrik | anton, does that mean more control over events? | 10 May 15:43:44 |
| Maxim | yess | 10 May 15:43:46 |
| Pekr | Whoa, cool! | 10 May 15:43:48 |
| Pekr | now we need some docs :-) | 10 May 15:43:53 |
| Maxim | docs? what'a that? | 10 May 15:44:07 |
| Pekr | The thing is, if we can filter them out fast enough ... | 10 May 15:44:19 |
| Maxim | I mean I can't be totally happy ;-) | 10 May 15:44:24 |
| PhilB | Not funny max ..... | 10 May 15:44:24 |
| Pekr | :-) | 10 May 15:44:25 |
| Maxim | hehe I am the canadian pekr after all. ;-) | 10 May 15:44:37 |
| PhilB | we need docs | 10 May 15:44:44 |
| Maxim | ports are async by DEFAULT ! | 10 May 15:45:00 |
| Maxim | yess! | 10 May 15:45:04 |
| Anton | Henrik, well Carl said it's easier to insert your own filter to filter all sorts of events. | 10 May 15:45:13 |
| Gabriele | petr happy again | 10 May 15:45:13 |
| Pekr | we need to connect Carl back to Matrix, to have his brain under our control :-)) | 10 May 15:45:17 |
| Sunanda | Carl spoke about DocBase this morning ---- it'll exist, but need populating. He asked for help on that :-) | 10 May 15:45:18 |
| Anton | indexes are internal to the port! | 10 May 15:46:51 |
| Maxim | btw 64 bits has been mentionned MANY times since the opening of the devcon :-) | 10 May 15:47:24 |
| Gabriele | (btw docbase is already running, as carl said this morning, and carl has been writing a lot of things in it.) | 10 May 15:47:45 |
| Pekr | I am curious about the model of tasking :-) Own one? Or just mapped to external OS capabilities? I would prefer Carl OS message passing .... :-) | 10 May 15:48:28 |
| Henrik | gabriele, who will have access to docbase? | 10 May 15:51:05 |
| Gabriele | everyone. it's already open, just the url is secret ;) | 10 May 15:51:50 |
| Pekr | hacking rebol.com once again :-) | 10 May 15:52:10 |
| Maxim | carl show async mapping of ports using EVENT model :-) | 10 May 15:52:23 |
| Henrik | gabriele, as long as it doesn't start to look like the new bugs section in rambo. :-) | 10 May 15:55:50 |
| Gabriele | it's mediawiki.... i assume they have some anti-spam measures | 10 May 15:56:20 |
| Maxim | considers allowing object! to define the port handler... like a feel.. .MUCH easier to Tweak and scan handler | 10 May 15:56:22 |
| Gabriele | speaking of which... i need to clean up rambo, haven't done so in two days. | 10 May 15:56:41 |
| Reichart | BRB | 10 May 15:58:02 |
| Ashley | Big Red Box? (critical error on an IBM mainframe system) | 10 May 15:59:18 |
| Pekr | what's with the Box? | 10 May 15:59:52 |
| Pekr | hmm, not so good in English ... | 10 May 16:00:02 |
| Maxim | BRB = Be Right Back | 10 May 16:00:22 |
| Pekr | ah :-) I thought Carl talked about something :-) But good idea anyway - Guru meditation was big red box :-) | 10 May 16:00:54 |
| PhilB | Big Red Switch would be the on-off switch on an As400 (IBM Mini) | 10 May 16:00:56 |
| Pekr | Maxim - so what is your R3 impression so far? | 10 May 16:01:30 |
| Maxim | so far, its everything we have been whining about :-) | 10 May 16:01:57 |
| Gabriele | r3 does everything. you just have to watch it working. | 10 May 16:02:37 |
| Reichart | Back. | 10 May 16:02:51 |
| xavier | it rocks | 10 May 16:02:58 |
| Pekr | working? I thought we are looking at slides only :-) | 10 May 16:03:11 |
| Maxim | LOL well now, we have to watch Carl talk about when he looks it working... | 10 May 16:03:14 |
| Anton | Ok, I want a beta. | 10 May 16:03:25 |
| Henrik | anton, 30. june | 10 May 16:03:41 |
| Pekr | I would be fine with alpha :-) | 10 May 16:03:46 |
| Reichart | : ) | 10 May 16:04:00 |
| Anton | More ! | 10 May 16:04:08 |
| Reichart | He is eating into my time! | 10 May 16:04:10 |
| Maxim | do you want more, or should Carl stop? | 10 May 16:04:17 |
| Reichart | Now I have to talk 4 x faster! | 10 May 16:04:26 |
| Gabriele | i would be fine with an exe that crashes after 30 seconds you run it. | 10 May 16:04:29 |
| btiffin | not bored :) | 10 May 16:04:33 |
| Pekr | pity we can't see anything on the slides :-( .... It would help ppl like me with lame english :-) | 10 May 16:04:35 |
| Anton | Reichart, you can eat into someone else's time. :) | 10 May 16:04:44 |
| Reichart | : ) | 10 May 16:04:52 |
| Maxim | hey I already lost 15 minutes because of Reichart... ;-) | 10 May 16:05:09 |
| Reichart | (I'm just joking for the record, I'mworking on setting up a video blog in fact this month, and plan to convert my talks into video blogs anyway). | 10 May 16:05:25 |
| Sunanda | Anton: dates give as ....... select developers 1-jun-2007 primary developers 30-jun general developers: 15-jul |
10 May 16:05:27 |
| Gabriele | here petr | 10 May 16:05:30 |
| xavier | ra | 10 May 16:05:35 |
| Anton | ipv6 - haven't heard much abou that for a while. | 10 May 16:05:36 |
| Gabriele | tasks | 10 May 16:05:37 |
| Maxim | pekr, OS THREAD are OS Based. | 10 May 16:05:41 |
| Ashley | More info on GOB's and the new face model ... or is that covered in a leter session? | 10 May 16:06:03 |
| Anton | Sunanda - oh I see. Hmm.. | 10 May 16:06:18 |
| Gabriele | i'd guess he'll talk about gobs too | 10 May 16:06:31 |
| Anton | Yeah... Gobs. | 10 May 16:06:36 |
| Maxim | funny, I'll talking about GLobs tomorrow... :-) | 10 May 16:07:00 |
| Pekr | Can tasks share data? | 10 May 16:08:13 |
| Maxim | 2 LINES of code to launch a task !!!! | 10 May 16:08:34 |
| Henrik | can tasks message eachother? | 10 May 16:08:35 |
| Maxim | yes... ipc port... | 10 May 16:08:58 |
| Anton | Yes, he said tasks can send each other blocks (with words in them). | 10 May 16:09:04 |
| Gabriele | henrik, the exmaple says write ipc://.... | 10 May 16:09:07 |
| Anton | Max, of course only 2 lines. | 10 May 16:09:19 |
| Dockimbel | atask: make task! [print "hello world'] do atask |
10 May 16:09:41 |
| Henrik | gabriele, ok, I can't see the screen very well | 10 May 16:09:42 |
| Ashley | Between say a REBOL and a VB app? | 10 May 16:10:01 |
| Gabriele | that's why i typed it here for you :) | 10 May 16:10:03 |
| Maxim | rememembering doing multi task in python... this is VERY cool. | 10 May 16:10:03 |
| Anton | Doc, cool. | 10 May 16:10:38 |
| Maxim | talking about a semaphore device :-) soooooo cooool | 10 May 16:10:39 |
| Pekr | but why no small own tasking? We want WildMan, right? It will need its own tasking/scheduler :-) | 10 May 16:11:10 |
| Henrik | pekr, didn't he say it would get one for Wildman? | 10 May 16:11:34 |
| Anton | camera wobblies | 10 May 16:11:39 |
| Pekr | I don't want to insert CD into my Windows PC, and see Rebol blocked. In fact Rebol could run in highest priority and do own tasking :-) | 10 May 16:12:02 |
| Ashley | The BLOB!!! | 10 May 16:12:11 |
| Pekr | He talked about Wildman? | 10 May 16:12:23 |
| Pekr | blob? Isn't it term from DB world? | 10 May 16:12:40 |
| Anton | Pekr, you shouldn't run a windows PC and expect a nice functioning computer - doesn't matter if rebol is running on it. | 10 May 16:12:57 |
| Ashley | Choppy video plus someones hand infront of camera = scary image ;) | 10 May 16:13:15 |
| Maxim | pekr: not yet... | 10 May 16:13:15 |
| Henrik | pekr, no he talked about OS'es with and without threads, and talked about a light weight threading model for OS'es without threading | 10 May 16:13:22 |
| xavier | why not a optimized kernel, launched at the startup and everything else will be rebol ? | 10 May 16:14:17 |
| Pekr | OK, but here is an example - if I copy in Total Commander and let it copy in the background, it slows as hell. So - is there still 'launch available? E.g. I want to have 3 rebol OS tasks, each using e.g. 5 threads? | 10 May 16:14:41 |
| Henrik | Pekr, rebol would not have any control over that. The OS decides when it's time to do REBOL stuff | 10 May 16:15:29 |
| Pekr | Max - let's not forget following topics - extensible rebol - language plug-ins, library wrappers (any improvements?), view plug-ins? | 10 May 16:16:26 |
| Henrik | and it wouldn't matter if REBOL used its own threading model or not | 10 May 16:16:30 |
| Anton | Even if you reimplemented TotalCommander in Rebol, you would still be dependant on the OS filesystem API. | 10 May 16:16:49 |
| Pekr | Henrik - I know, just that currently we can have rebol "tasks" - using launch ... my question was, if 'launch is still available? | 10 May 16:17:01 |
| Pekr | talking about gobs now? | 10 May 16:18:04 |
| Gabriele | yep | 10 May 16:18:21 |
| Anton | Yep. Each gob has an alpha channel. | 10 May 16:18:24 |
| Henrik | but, what exactly is a gob? is it a face or an image? what does: a: make gob! none probe a look like? |
10 May 16:19:21 |
| Maxim | gob is a ptr to the AGG structure with a an abstraction layer. | 10 May 16:19:45 |
| Anton | Gabriele, the question I saw a while ago on reboltalk forum. The guy wanted to put two applications in one. Ie. take two random scripts from rebol.org and put them as two panels in a window. This is an interesting concept to me. It means abstracting an "app" away from the details of the window (or panel) it's in. Just an idea. | 10 May 16:20:09 |
| Henrik | maxim, so it's like a buffer? where you can apply effects or do dynamic operations on it? | 10 May 16:20:23 |
| Anton | Yes, what are the fields of a gob! Remember also that objects can be extended.. | 10 May 16:20:52 |
| Gabriele | gob is like face, except that is not an object! but a gob! and that it is much more optimized | 10 May 16:21:06 |
| Pekr | Henrik - from what I know from Cyphre, new View will use full AGG compositing (AGG contains compositing engine), so maybe so ... | 10 May 16:21:09 |
| Gabriele | gob! cannot be extended | 10 May 16:21:18 |
| Gabriele | ie. you can't make gob! [my-field: ...] | 10 May 16:21:43 |
| Anton | Mmm, ok. | 10 May 16:21:56 |
| Pekr | Gabriele - but what is the difference between the gob? Just a name? IMO it is kind of object, no? :-) | 10 May 16:22:04 |
| Gabriele | i think gob! has user-data, so you can put an object there | 10 May 16:22:04 |
| Gabriele | it looks like an object but it is a c structure | 10 May 16:22:30 |
| Gabriele | takes much less memory than faces | 10 May 16:22:44 |
| Anton | Question now is can coordinates of arbitrary points on curved lines in agg be accessible in rebol. | 10 May 16:22:55 |
| Pekr | why? isn't face just a c structure anywa? As is object! too, no? | 10 May 16:23:15 |
| Gabriele | no, face is an object! value. | 10 May 16:23:33 |
| btiffin | If anyone from Sahores-Conseil is listening...Thanks! A lot. It's a good day... | 10 May 16:24:40 |
| Henrik | gabriele, so a fast arcade game would be made up of gobs (player, enemies, score) put inside other gobs (background, starfield)? | 10 May 16:24:46 |
| Gabriele | yep. | 10 May 16:25:03 |
| Maxim | exactly. | 10 May 16:25:08 |
| Gabriele | just like you would do with faces now | 10 May 16:25:10 |
| Henrik | except a billion times faster | 10 May 16:25:31 |
| Anton | (except the fast bit) | 10 May 16:25:37 |
| Henrik | :-) | 10 May 16:25:43 |
| Pekr | I just wonder if we needed new concept? Weren't we ok with kind of min-face, containing simply less fields? | 10 May 16:25:50 |
| Gabriele | this takes less memory | 10 May 16:26:08 |
| Pekr | so do faces still exist? What is the relation? | 10 May 16:26:15 |
| Maxim | well AGG still has to do the rasterizing and its CPU based... so not million times faster.. but less REBOL collision trying to MANAGE the internal C data. | 10 May 16:26:32 |
| Pekr | Not caring about memory, if concepts eventually don't fit :-) | 10 May 16:26:34 |
| Henrik | pekr, the current model is terribly slow and eats up a lot of memory | 10 May 16:26:36 |
| Gabriele | we've been discussing this with carl for more than one year, and he did compiutations to estimate memory use and so on... and in the end the simplest/best thing is a gob! type | 10 May 16:26:49 |
| Maxim | no faces yet, but could be virtualized. | 10 May 16:26:56 |
| Henrik | try getting more than 1-3 fps in full screen on a 1280x960 screen :-) | 10 May 16:27:15 |
| Pekr | no faces? Aha, so you will use object! which will hold or refer to gobs? | 10 May 16:27:30 |
| Gabriele | yep | 10 May 16:27:48 |
| Pekr | I mean - to replace face concept? | 10 May 16:27:50 |
| Maxim | well a gob can be an assembly of gobs, | 10 May 16:27:50 |
| Henrik | pekr, I heard carl mumbling something about emulating R2 faces | 10 May 16:27:53 |
| Pekr | OK then ... | 10 May 16:27:56 |
| Pekr | let's forget R2 :-) | 10 May 16:28:11 |
| Maxim | of one gob can be a pointer to many gobs whcih will contain all the previous face constructs... like edge lets say. | 10 May 16:28:29 |
| Pekr | I want to see slides, please :-) I just realised, how weak my english is :-) | 10 May 16:28:54 |
| Reichart | Carl has an odd way of speaking English as well. | 10 May 16:29:55 |
| Anton | highspeed dialects .. rebcode ... | 10 May 16:29:55 |
| Maxim | tomorrow you'll see globs, which actually seem like a 100% map to R3 gobs so far :-) | 10 May 16:30:00 |
| Pekr | high speed dialects? What is that? | 10 May 16:30:00 |
| Anton | intrinsics - lower-level functions that need higher-level support | 10 May 16:30:21 |
| Henrik | did he say the word limit is gone? | 10 May 16:30:49 |
| Pekr | yes | 10 May 16:30:54 |
| Maxim | YES | 10 May 16:30:56 |
| Reichart | YEs, I want a million words in REbol | 10 May 16:30:58 |
| Gabriele | yep | 10 May 16:31:01 |
| Pekr | Reichart - what for? :-) | 10 May 16:31:13 |
| Anton | Carl said something about a framework(?) for implementing high speed dialects, which he developed for rebcode (?) | 10 May 16:31:21 |
| Reichart | Qtask | 10 May 16:31:24 |
| Maxim | me too. words are fast. | 10 May 16:31:26 |
| Reichart | When Carl speaks in Engish, he pauses a lot...but almost always before a noun....which he then makes louder.... He also stutters, and changes direction in the middle of his sentences. |
10 May 16:32:50 |
| Henrik | reichart, probably not practiced | 10 May 16:33:24 |
| Reichart | I tried dictating him just now, and it is tough becuase of the way he speaks. So if you don't speak English normally, it would be very tough. | 10 May 16:33:35 |
| Anton | Going over the list of datatypes. | 10 May 16:34:21 |
| Ashley | "pauses a lot...but almost always before a noun....which he then makes louder" ... I thought that was my choppy video feed! ;) | 10 May 16:35:08 |
| Pekr | :-) | 10 May 16:35:23 |
| Anton | mine just went choppy, reload ok... | 10 May 16:36:21 |
| Reichart | Same here | 10 May 16:36:58 |
| Reichart | It would be nice if you could tell the video to be BW, so that it used the bandwidth better. | 10 May 16:37:44 |
| Ashley | What line speed do you have Anton? I'm on 1.5MB (ADSL) here. | 10 May 16:37:58 |
| Reichart | For example, I don't need colour here. | 10 May 16:37:58 |
| Anton | 512k adsl | 10 May 16:38:25 |
| Henrik | reichart, no colors and higher resolution would be good | 10 May 16:38:27 |
| Brock | ahhh, better picture ;-) | 10 May 16:39:03 |
| Ashley | YES! I'd be happy with pixelated video if it meant better sound quality. | 10 May 16:39:04 |
| Henrik | there goes the focusing again... | 10 May 16:39:24 |
| Anton | My video is alternately blurring and clearing at ~ 1Hz and the sound cuts out when it blurs. | 10 May 16:39:46 |
| Reichart | See, I had the same problem with my Logitech. | 10 May 16:39:52 |
| Henrik | same here | 10 May 16:39:57 |
| Anton | Is that the camera ? | 10 May 16:40:02 |
| Pekr | it looks like camera is trying to focus? | 10 May 16:40:11 |
| Henrik | why are cameras still not able to handle this? | 10 May 16:40:15 |
| Ashley | Anton, is your feed choppy? Sound drop-outs every 10 seconds or so? | 10 May 16:40:17 |
| Anton | reloading... | 10 May 16:40:21 |
| Pekr | mine drops every few secs | 10 May 16:40:29 |
| Anton | sound has been pretty good, sound dropouts at about that frequency in the last few minutes, but much better until then. | 10 May 16:40:57 |
| Maxim | I think the user load is getting quite high... we where at just under 400 during my talk. | 10 May 16:41:03 |
| Pekr | 400 users? There is so many rebollers out there? :-) | 10 May 16:41:28 |
| Henrik | I advertised on Amigaworld | 10 May 16:41:45 |
| Anton | My video is not keeping up as well as the sound. | 10 May 16:41:45 |
| Anton | Ahh.. it's your fault, Henrik ! ;) | 10 May 16:42:17 |
| Pekr | :-) | 10 May 16:42:28 |
| Reichart | Sadley I must go (bike ride) | 10 May 16:42:34 |
| Ashley | Same here. Getting ghosting which clears up after 30 seconds then starts to ghost again. | 10 May 16:42:34 |
| Henrik | I'm terribly sorry. It will never happen again. | 10 May 16:42:41 |
| Pekr | :-) | 10 May 16:42:54 |
| Anton | Are you not talking Reichart ? | 10 May 16:43:08 |
| Pekr | you did pretty good job in fact! It attracted ppl to talk about rebol! | 10 May 16:43:14 |
| Henrik | yes, it did attract a bit of attention. I will also do some posts on using rebol.o inside other programs. | 10 May 16:43:53 |
| Maxim | pekr: aahh to whom are you addressing ? | 10 May 16:43:54 |
| Pekr | to Henrik. | 10 May 16:44:28 |
| Henrik | this basically means that people will be able to use rebol.o and some rebol only decoders/parsers/readers directly in their own software without knowing one bit of rebol | 10 May 16:44:56 |
| Pekr | what was the mention of deep copying of function? | 10 May 16:45:31 |
| Anton | make object! 10 allocates an object with enough room initially for 10 fields, to minimize reallocations. | 10 May 16:45:38 |
| Gabriele | get-paths | 10 May 16:45:58 |
| Maxim | R3 now deep copies by default... but its at mezz so you can revert if you need. | 10 May 16:46:03 |
| Reichart | I don't think I'im talking yet. I will be back at 10:00a (my time) which is 7:00 thier time...so I assume not. | 10 May 16:46:23 |
| Pekr | What does it deep copies? Function arguments? | 10 May 16:46:35 |
| Anton | path plus a colon is a path-set! "paths are all consistent now" | 10 May 16:46:37 |
| Gabriele | the code block | 10 May 16:47:08 |
| Anton | Reichart. 2 hours 15 minutes from now ? | 10 May 16:47:13 |
| Gabriele | make function! spec copy/deep body | 10 May 16:47:19 |
| Pekr | is there still subojbects sharing? | 10 May 16:47:53 |
| Maxim | pekr, copies the body. so we don't need to do val: copy [] all the time. | 10 May 16:47:58 |
| Reichart | YEs, I can be able to go then, but I suspect they will all be gone. | 10 May 16:48:03 |
| Gabriele | max, i don't think he meant at every evaluation | 10 May 16:48:43 |
| Reichart | Be back in 2.25 hours. | 10 May 16:48:54 |
| Pekr | is there a class concept in rebol as one blog mentioned? | 10 May 16:48:58 |
| Gabriele | he meant at make tame | 10 May 16:49:00 |
| Gabriele | bye riechart! | 10 May 16:49:04 |
| Maxim | Henrik, we can now remold the error message | 10 May 16:49:05 |
| Gabriele | *time | 10 May 16:49:20 |
| Anton | R. you might have 15 mins.. or so.. | 10 May 16:49:21 |
| Maxim | yes... gab... U are right. | 10 May 16:49:23 |
| Reichart | Gab, please work out if I can give my talk first thing tomorrow (for them) basically pumping Maxim. | 10 May 16:49:37 |
| Henrik | maxim, I didn't catch whether we can now create custom error outputs? such as a pretty error requester with feedback fields, etc. | 10 May 16:49:57 |
| Gabriele | ok, i'll ask | 10 May 16:50:05 |
| btiffin | tracing...Nice. | 10 May 16:50:49 |
| Anton | The idea of file line numbering for debugging is a possibility for Rebol 3.1 maybe. (I don't care much for it myself). | 10 May 16:50:52 |
| Henrik | anton, oh, that would be _very_ nice to have | 10 May 16:51:25 |
| Anton | question: can we have 16bit tuples, ie. for 16bits per channel colours, as used in CSS. Answer: not right away... | 10 May 16:52:11 |
| Gabriele | answer: use vector! | 10 May 16:52:40 |
| Maxim | henrik yess. we can generate the error which is generated from rebol using the error object. | 10 May 16:52:43 |
| Pekr | ha, timers :-) | 10 May 16:52:44 |
| Anton | Henrik, I'm not sure. I think it wouldn't be possible to always have an accurate answer, so if we can not rely on it, we would end u pnot using it. | 10 May 16:53:46 |
| Pekr | Gabriele - is there new, more powerfull even engine in rebol, e.g. libevent? | 10 May 16:54:40 |
| Henrik | anton, it's a problem currently with a function used in many places and you get an error inside the function (wrong value as argument). you can't see anything outside the function or what called it. perhaps the stack trace will help that, but still... | 10 May 16:54:55 |
| Gabriele | not that i know of | 10 May 16:54:58 |
| Gabriele | the new port/event system looks really great | 10 May 16:55:26 |
| Anton | Thankyou Carl ! | 10 May 16:55:41 |
| Pekr | Q: language plug-ins? | 10 May 16:55:47 |
| Pekr | ah, so too late :-) | 10 May 16:55:52 |
| Maxim | henrik, there is a Stack object! | 10 May 16:55:53 |
| Anton | Claps from us, please ! | 10 May 16:55:55 |
| Henrik | I would like to applause, but you guys probably can't hear it. | 10 May 16:56:11 |
| Pekr | Gabriele - will there be next session about Rebol environments? | 10 May 16:56:14 |
| Anton | Running 1 hour 45 minutes over time.. :) | 10 May 16:57:49 |
| Gabriele | hmm next session by carl is about module architecture | 10 May 16:58:08 |
| Gabriele | i can get carl here for a few questions if you want? | 10 May 16:58:30 |
| Brock | what session is next? | 10 May 16:59:03 |
| btiffin | Sorry, I missed some of the early sessions....is there is an R3/Beta test timeline? | 10 May 16:59:21 |
| Pekr | Gabriele - modules are scheduled for tomorrow. So embedding rebol is left? | 10 May 16:59:27 |
| Anton | Q: Will we be able to hook into View system ? I mean SHOW does a lot of work underneath, calling Redraw function at various times. Can we hook those functions ? | 10 May 17:00:21 |
| Anton | The next session is supposed to be Sunanda with Rebol Library Internals, then Carl Sassenrath with Environments - Embedding REBOL. | 10 May 17:01:12 |
| Gabriele | ah, right, i don't know, i'll ask | 10 May 17:01:23 |
| Anton | cool. | 10 May 17:01:39 |
| Anton | I ask because I want to know if I can implement transparent events, events which pass through parts of a gob. | 10 May 17:02:05 |
| Pekr | I would like to ask about the next session, if it is cancelled, or will it be today? (Embedding rebol - because it would probably cover topics like - language plug-ins, view plug-ins, improvements to library interface?, browser-plugins) | 10 May 17:02:09 |
| PhilB | Thought Lad was next ..... script preprocessing | 10 May 17:02:36 |
| Pekr | yes, Ladislav is just preparing. | 10 May 17:02:53 |
| Anton | Phil, oh yes :) | 10 May 17:02:59 |
| Anton | I didn't look back far enough on the schedule :) | 10 May 17:03:29 |
| Pekr | I would like to see Ladislav's session but I also need to move home :-( | 10 May 17:03:34 |
| Pekr | I hope sessions get recorded ... | 10 May 17:03:44 |
| Ashley | Need to sleep, 1AM here. Ditto on the recording question. | 10 May 17:04:27 |
| Brock | does it make sense to create a new group for each session, so the conversations are easier to find? We can also have a new 'divider' to allow the grouping of the sessions. | 10 May 17:04:44 |
| Anton | Hmm.. can I stay awake for a couple more hours... | 10 May 17:05:07 |
| Pekr | Maybe for next years conference :-) | 10 May 17:05:14 |
| Pekr | ok, going home quickly .... see you in 25 mins ... | 10 May 17:05:32 |
| Anton | cyu pekr | 10 May 17:06:41 |
| Henrik | next year will require 3 days, perhaps :-) | 10 May 17:06:41 |
| Brock | The sessions always run longer than expected.... which is a good thing ;-) | 10 May 17:11:33 |
| Dockimbel | Ladislav is about to begin his session | 10 May 17:12:12 |
| Gabriele | ok, i'm back, sessions willnot be skipped but just shrinked | 10 May 17:13:17 |
| Dockimbel | Introduction in french...almost understanble ;) | 10 May 17:13:24 |
| Gabriele | recording: from what i see, noone is recording | 10 May 17:13:33 |
| Gabriele | dunno if the stream is being recorded | 10 May 17:13:42 |
| Gabriele | there was a camera this morning so the morning sessions are recorded | 10 May 17:14:01 |
| Gabriele | nenad is telling me there is a camera for recordinng | 10 May 17:14:45 |
| Henrik | gabriele, sounds like the cops found you! | 10 May 17:15:44 |
| Anton | :) | 10 May 17:15:55 |
| Gabriele | lol | 10 May 17:16:04 |
| Maxim | ladislav is having fun trying to find the ~ character on the keyboard | 10 May 17:16:51 |
| Henrik | is that a mac keyboard? | 10 May 17:17:09 |
| Sunanda | french keyboard on a pc | 10 May 17:17:30 |
| Gabriele | a umpc actually | 10 May 17:18:17 |
| Henrik | wow, when someone shuts the door, it sounds like someone dropped a handgrenade | 10 May 17:18:36 |
| btiffin | %include2.r is pretty cool. include/only lets you inspect the source you are working on | 10 May 17:19:38 |
| Maxim | it was loud here too, the wind blew the door shut. | 10 May 17:20:11 |
| Henrik | btiffin, I haven't caught up on it, but I surely hope it'll replace the (crappy) include stuff I have been using. | 10 May 17:20:24 |
| Maxim | its feeling like an aquarium in the sun here! | 10 May 17:20:43 |
| Maxim | so we opened a big window.... | 10 May 17:20:58 |
| btiffin | This is going to be good... | 10 May 17:21:04 |
| Maxim | sorry for the bg noise. | 10 May 17:21:22 |
| Henrik | oh, we can see the source on the net, right? | 10 May 17:21:28 |
| btiffin | Yep... | 10 May 17:21:53 |
| Gabriele | http://www.fm.tul.cz/~ladislav/rebol/include2.r | 10 May 17:22:43 |
| btiffin | That one camera pan is shorting out a cable... | 10 May 17:25:28 |
| Henrik | could the camera be kept on the screen and whiteboard? | 10 May 17:25:58 |
| Anton | The include2 api looks pretty clean and understandable. | 10 May 17:26:00 |
| btiffin | Absolutely. Very easy grok. | 10 May 17:26:26 |
| btiffin | And you can blk: include/only %thissource.r to inspect what will happen on include/link... handy for learning |
10 May 17:27:03 |
| Geomol | Yes, camera on the screen/whiteboard is better than viewing that white jet engine at the right. Please! :-) | 10 May 17:27:37 |
| Geomol | Thanks! | 10 May 17:27:55 |
| Henrik | nooo! back | 10 May 17:28:06 |
| Geomol | Is Carl going to talk about Environments today? If yes, in how long from now? | 10 May 17:29:31 |
| Henrik | geomol, Carl went 45 minutes over time in the last session, I don't think he'll be talking more today | 10 May 17:30:07 |
| Geomol | Could we have the camera on the screen/whiteboard, please!? | 10 May 17:30:10 |
| Gabriele | last time i have asked, speechs are not going to be skipped, but just shrinked | 10 May 17:30:32 |
| Henrik | yes, I don't understand one bit of what Ladislav is doing... | 10 May 17:30:34 |
| Gabriele | the camera operator is not on altme :) | 10 May 17:30:45 |
| Gabriele | he's configuring windows so that you can use include directly from explorer | 10 May 17:31:01 |
| Geomol | Gabriele, go tell him/her! | 10 May 17:31:05 |
| btiffin | Poor Ladislav; He has some neat tech to describe... :) | 10 May 17:31:06 |
| Anton | technical difficulties, it looks like | 10 May 17:31:13 |
| Henrik | gabriele, or perhaps just describe what he's doing :-) | 10 May 17:31:45 |
| Anton | Geomol, can you actually see anything on that whiteboard ? | 10 May 17:31:52 |
| Geomol | Anton, I don't know. I haven't had the option yet. | 10 May 17:32:17 |
| Gabriele | basically, go to the properties for the .r file association in explorer | 10 May 17:32:31 |
| Gabriele | add a new action called include | 10 May 17:32:38 |
| Gabriele | that runs rebol.exe incl.r %1 (with respective paths for rebol.exe and incl.r) | 10 May 17:33:16 |
| Gabriele | this is documented in ladislav's web page | 10 May 17:33:32 |
| Gabriele | which i think is http://www.fm.tul.cz/~ladislav/rebol/include.html | 10 May 17:33:59 |
| Anton | yes | 10 May 17:34:48 |
| Sunanda | I'm on .... Library presentation available as a PDF -- the verbose versions have (some) explanatory notes. Terse just have images and bullet points -- the lr (low res) versions are 1.2 meg. The hr (high res) are 4.4 meg *** http://www.rebol.org/library/public/devcon2007-library-verbose-hr.pdf http://www.rebol.org/library/public/devcon2007-library-terse-hr.pdf http://www.rebol.org/library/public/devcon2007-library-verbose-lr.pdf http://www.rebol.org/library/public/devcon2007-library-terse-lr.pdf |
10 May 17:45:18 |
| Anton | Applause for Ladislav... | 10 May 17:45:47 |
| Gabriele | Reichart, we found someone that speaks faster than you. :P | 10 May 17:49:36 |
| PhilB | Talked so fast he stalled the stream ! | 10 May 17:50:31 |
| btiffin | Sunanda types fast too :) | 10 May 17:51:28 |
| btiffin | Hey my name :) | 10 May 17:51:47 |
| Pekr | Sunanda is a cool guy! :-) | 10 May 17:58:17 |
| Maxim | sunanda reveals that "Script Library" search on Google returns Rebol.org script library as the #2 link on the page out of several million! | 10 May 17:58:27 |
| btiffin | He does a lot for the community... | 10 May 17:59:04 |
| btiffin | Got to get him experimenting with Cheyenne :) | 10 May 18:00:48 |
| Maxim | oh for the record, steel is located at: http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/steel/index.html |
10 May 18:01:14 |
| btiffin | Dig in lads...get into the wiki... | 10 May 18:03:52 |
| Anton | Excellent presentation, Sunanda. Well prepared. | 10 May 18:13:57 |
| btiffin | Yep, he pays close attention to details. | 10 May 18:15:03 |
| btiffin | Sunanda....Well done. | 10 May 18:15:51 |
| PhilB | yes, well done Sunanda .... | 10 May 18:16:05 |
| Anton | you're right about the grenades | 10 May 18:16:29 |
| Pekr | another one :-) | 10 May 18:16:41 |
| Pekr | reminds me of Cannon Fodder :-) | 10 May 18:16:55 |
| Gregg | Applause for Sunanda! (background monitoring here) | 10 May 18:17:16 |
| Sunanda | Thanks guys! | 10 May 18:18:04 |
| Volker | Cannon fodder? camera hit?^^ | 10 May 18:18:12 |
| btiffin | Sunanda; Hip hip hooray! :) | 10 May 18:18:26 |
| Anton | It's the door closing, or local rioters... | 10 May 18:18:46 |
| Pekr | so, will there be session from Carl now? | 10 May 18:18:49 |
| Volker | (was to late back, hope there is recording) | 10 May 18:18:52 |
| btiffin | Everybody else...Only a few more scripts to get to a nice prime 797...poke poke | 10 May 18:19:13 |
| Maxim | Cannon Fodder!!! wow flashback! | 10 May 18:20:58 |
| Maxim | sooo much fun | 10 May 18:21:02 |
| Pekr | that was a name ... we should port it to Rebol ;-) It was VERY addictive and fun :-) | 10 May 18:21:29 |
| Pekr | name=game | 10 May 18:21:43 |
| Volker | Whover has the camrea, /me gets seasick!^^ | 10 May 18:21:45 |
| Dockimbel | Sessions are closed for tofay, ihe's doing that on purpose to make you go away ;-) | 10 May 18:22:52 |
| btiffin | That is some nice video production... | 10 May 18:22:55 |
| Dockimbel | today | 10 May 18:22:59 |
| Pekr | hey, I just eat too, so carefull with the camera :-) | 10 May 18:23:08 |
| Mchean | where is the video at? | 10 May 18:23:15 |
| Sunanda | Bye everyone.....We'll be back tomorrow. | 10 May 18:23:25 |
| Anton | not joking ? | 10 May 18:23:26 |
| Anton | Ok, nice work everyone. | 10 May 18:23:41 |
| Mchean | going out to drink? record that too | 10 May 18:23:42 |
| Gregg | http://ead.ephe.sorbonne.fr/dess-capture.sdp -- but stopped for today it seems. | 10 May 18:23:42 |
| Pekr | hmm, it is a pity ... wanted to hear about embedding Rebol .... | 10 May 18:23:45 |
| Mchean | so no recorded sessions, just live | 10 May 18:24:03 |
| Gabriele | there will be recordings posted later on, afaik | 10 May 18:24:21 |
| Henrik | mchean, there seems to be two cameras | 10 May 18:24:26 |
| btiffin | Well done....thanks to Sahores Conseil, again. | 10 May 18:24:26 |
| Pekr | yes, take us to the party :-) I will connect via Skype, so we can virtually drink all together :-) | 10 May 18:24:33 |
| Gabriele | i have a few minutes of recordings that i'l post to youtube later on too. | 10 May 18:24:45 |
| Pekr | hmm, good tip for skype-like rebol 3 based tool :-) | 10 May 18:24:48 |
| Anton | Gabriele, any answer on the transparent events question ? | 10 May 18:25:46 |
| btiffin | Sorry, was there any timeline on when we get our grubby little hands on R3? | 10 May 18:27:18 |
| Gregg | Thanks to all who made the feed available! | 10 May 18:27:39 |
| Mchean | cool thanks - wish i was in paris | 10 May 18:27:41 |
| Gregg | End of June or a little later Brian. | 10 May 18:28:02 |
| Mchean | ply carl with drinks and see what you can learn for us | 10 May 18:28:18 |
| btiffin | Gregg; Thanks. Pacing starts now.... :) | 10 May 18:28:51 |
| Gabriele | anton, not directly, if i understand what you mean by that. i guess that will be in the open source part, but i'm not 100% sure. | 10 May 18:29:40 |
| Gabriele | it could be something for 3.x with x > 0 | 10 May 18:30:02 |
| Anton | I'll bring it up again when I actually have seen R3's View system. | 10 May 18:31:41 |
| Anton | :) | 10 May 18:31:59 |
| Pekr | will there be live R3 demo? ;-) | 10 May 18:32:46 |
| Pekr | something like tryint to spawn 1000 tasks from loop in console? | 10 May 18:33:08 |
| Pekr | ah, I forgot those are threads .... well, I suggest a refinement for make task. I want to choose for the task, or a thread, and task to be interconnected via some kind of IPC, not like launch ... | 10 May 18:34:43 |
| Dockimbel | IIRC, Carl said that each new task! will cost around 10Kb of memory | 10 May 18:35:04 |
| Pekr | that was not my question :-) The thing is, that when you launch 100 thread for one process, you get just 1 time for your process, which you will divide to those 100 REBOL tasks = threads internally. | 10 May 18:36:45 |
| Pekr | I wanted to know, if I can choose between tasks and threads | 10 May 18:37:04 |
| Dockimbel | in R3, tasks are threads | 10 May 18:37:34 |
| Pekr | imagine fast-cgi scenario, where you can choose how many instances of interpreter will run, and each can handle some things. | 10 May 18:37:35 |
| Pekr | do you think it is sufficient solution then? In cheyenne, tasks are tasks ... | 10 May 18:38:08 |
| Pekr | I can imagine launching e.g. 5 httpd tasks (rebol processes) each handling e.g. 100 connections, where 1 connection = 1 rebol task = 1 OS thread ... | 10 May 18:38:50 |
| Dockimbel | In Cheyenne, "tasks" are processes | 10 May 18:39:06 |
| Pekr | if it can't be scaled that way, it is imo insufficient ... | 10 May 18:39:07 |
| Dockimbel | R3 will help a lot in building a much better support for CGI and RSP in Cheyenne. | 10 May 18:39:48 |
| Pekr | imo Carl took the easier part - used OS threads, as those can share data. In the case of using processes, he would have to come with some IPC mechanism ... That is why I asked if 'launch is still there .... | 10 May 18:40:36 |
| Dockimbel | No, that's not the way Cheyenne works. All static HTTP requests are handled by only 1 process, the Cheyenne process. The "helper" tasks are only used to handle CGI or RSP scripts. | 10 May 18:40:52 |
| Pekr | part=path | 10 May 18:40:52 |
| Pekr | Sure, but do you think that e.g. 500 connections, handled by 1 rebol process running 500 threads will be better performer than 5 rebol processes handling each 100 threads? | 10 May 18:42:09 |
| Pekr | imo those 5 separate processes get more time from OS ... | 10 May 18:42:33 |
| btiffin | Doc; Cheyenne is proving itself pretty worthy so far here at peoplecards.ca Thanks. Not delved too deep, but runs nice and smooth. |
10 May 18:42:45 |
| Andreas | pekr, that depends on your os :) | 10 May 18:42:57 |
| Dockimbel | Yes because context switching between processes is much more expensive than for threads | 10 May 18:42:58 |
| Dockimbel | Brian, yes thanks, I saw your website, that's a cool concept. I''m glad that Cheyenne suits your needs. | 10 May 18:43:45 |
| Pekr | actually I think that logically 5 separate tasks will handle more connections, as that is 5 tasks getting OS time, instead of 1 task getting OS time out of tens of other OS tasks running ... :-) | 10 May 18:44:15 |
| btiffin | I hope I can do a good enough job on the actual site to keep REBOL is a nice light :) | 10 May 18:45:42 |
| Dockimbel | I think that the OS does a fair dispatch of time between all threads (of same priority). | 10 May 18:45:56 |
| Pekr | Doc - do you think that Rebollers will now turn to bad habbit = we start using 1 thread for 1 connection? I wonder how much more expensive is that in comparison to current multiplexing aproach, using just ports? | 10 May 18:46:14 |
| Andreas | well, no. that's no logical consequence. both os processes and os threads compete for the same resources | 10 May 18:46:28 |
| Pekr | ok, will look into scheduling. I thought that OS actually schedules between tasks, not caring how many threads your app does run. | 10 May 18:47:00 |
| Dockimbel | I don't think so, because we had async before threading so we didn't took bad habits like java programmers ;-) | 10 May 18:47:12 |
| Andreas | only that, at least with recent 2.6+ linux threading, processes are far more expensive to create and to switch between | 10 May 18:47:30 |
| Pekr | Doc - so we can bet :-) I once again think, that RT will take easier path, so that they will rewrite protocols so that they use threads, no need to care about multiplexing :-) | 10 May 18:48:19 |
| btiffin | It's too bad MS didn't support POSIX more fully. A lo of threading issues got resolved what? two decades ago. :) |
10 May 18:49:08 |
| Dockimbel | Petr, I don't think so, I guess Carl won't let that happen ;-) | 10 May 18:50:52 |
| Dockimbel | Need to go, guys, maybe I'll came back here during the dinner so we can relay some questions to Carl. | 10 May 18:51:29 |
| Anton | Pekr, whether 1 task with 5 threads or 5 tasks (with only 1 thread each) is faster totally depends on your situation; your OS, your application (are you dependant on disk access or network access), bandwidth, timers, and OS task/process scheduling priority. | 10 May 18:57:14 |
| Brock | I missed more of the presentations than I saw, hopefully we will see them online somewhere soon. | 10 May 19:07:23 |
| Graham | Is there going to be a summary of the talks? | 10 May 21:31:25 |
| Reichart | "Reichart, we found someone that speaks faster than you. :P" I need proof! And, remember, I'm ALWAYS slowing my self down....I consider this a challenge! Oh, I can misspell at 120 wpm... | 10 May 23:11:07 |
| Reichart | Was there a statement about there being video of the presentations? | 10 May 23:12:59 |
| Henrik | Gabriele deduced that there would be since there were two cameras filming | 10 May 23:24:41 |
